Buddha Torrents has recently come under pressure from Blogger as well as Publishers to close its doors and cease postings and delete the blog. I have mixed feelings on this and know that the majority of people that use this blog would say no, however if you feel it should continue or should not I would invite you to comment below.
If you use Buddha Torrents and have never left a comment now would be the time!
If you dont use Buddha Torrents now would also be your time!
Below is the original letter received.
Hi there
I see that you are responsible for posting many Buddhist books up on the web via buddhisttorrents.blogspot.com and other avenues. I am sure your intention is really good – its so wonderful to be able to make so many precious teachings available to people.
However, what you are going is actually really harmful in a number of ways and I wanted to bring these to your attention for your consideration. I am not trying to engage in a philosophic debate or anything, I just want to paint the whole picture for you.
Authors, publishers, and booksellers who create, produce, and make these books available are not getting rich off of these, but their enumeration is what makes it possible to continue putting these books out there. We are not producing any Tom Clancy or Danielle Steele novels here. If the economics of producing our types of books breaks down, far fewer will be made – that is just a reality, and frankly it is already happening due to the changing economics with bookstores closing and Amazon becoming the gorilla that it is. So making these available to people for free ultimately does a lot of harm. For example, one of our authors donates all her proceeds to her monastic practice center to ensure that it can continue in the future. This is one of many, many examples. Many of our authors barely make enough to do what they do.
It is a difficult time for publishers of all books these days – many will not survive the next few years, and those that will are struggling to find new ways of revenue to enable their employees to do what they love, which is making these books. Having free downloads undermines this.
As for those people who do not have enough money to afford these books, we do make them available for libraries to have. Additionally Shambhala, and I assume Wisdom, Snow Lion and others, donate many books to worthy causes – each year we send them to prisons, military personnel, and other organizations.
So I respectfully request that you please stop your activity in this area, remove links to these files that enable others to take what is not given. I know your heart is in the right place, and you could be doing so much to help people connect with this meaningful activity. Become a reviewer! Blog about these books! We’ll send you reviewer copies for free.
Thanks for your consideration,
hi i live in mexico for me 1 boock cost 3 day of work ......and the books in spanish comes from spain and are 3 times more expensive than us prices......plese consider this and kepp on
ReplyDeletethanks
For those of us who live in places where the vast majority of the books featured here are not available, you are a life line. For those of who cannot afford to purchase books, you are an amazing Bodhisattva of compassion.
ReplyDeleteFor myself, this site has been an amazing gift. I've had access to material here that I would never have been able to buy. My practice has been helped a great deal by this site. I'm sure many others have been helped as well.
You do not host any of the files shown here so I agree with Didier's view. You are preforming a great service here and I hope that you choose to continue. You are truly needed. =)
Namaste, Gasho, Hapchang. _/|\_
Please don't go!!! Your are my only source for such very important things. =)
ReplyDeleteRevenue is only lost by the authors/publishers if people who find books online are people who would have bought the book in a bookstore. When I find things online that I enjoy, I purchase them. The majority of things I investigate online are things that I otherwise would not have exposure to. They are not things I would have purchased, so no money is not changing hands that otherwise would have. And when I do come across something I enjoy, as I said, I go purchase it. On the contrary to the spokesperson from Shambhala, this forum and sites like it have made me purchase more things from Shambhala, Sounds True, Snow Lion, etc.
ReplyDeletePLEASE, PLEASE do NOT close this blog. It has helped so many people who would otherwise not have access.
ReplyDeleteMany are indigent.
If there is anything I can do to help facilitate, please feel free to contact me'
Thank you
nancibaren
By the way, some people should wake up to the world reality. We are no all us citizens, so for us is not possible to ask our libraries (if any) to get dharma books. In fact, most of us in latinamerica don`t have public libraries
ReplyDeleteI doubt many visitors to Buddha Torrents would have paid for the books anyways. Like me, they probably would have waited until they were released in mass trade paperback, bought them used, borrowed them from a friend, or borrowed them from a library (if they had access to a library at all). From time to time, I have gone out and purchased books I have sampled from Buddha Torrents which I probably wouldn't have done otherwise. The site is, at worst, a wash for the publishers and probably a net gain.
ReplyDeleteBasically the book publishers are where the music industry was 8 years ago. They are fighting digital publishing, trying to lock down their product with onerous DRM, and are missing the bigger picture: sharing on the margins generates more revenues in the long run.
If Blogger is no longer interesting in hosting your blog, you can easily throw together a WordPress blog and host it in a share-friendly country like Sweden.
Or you can simply release under a screenname at TPB or Demonoid.
It's a joke for a book publisher to use what little money the authors make as an excuse because it is them, in fact, that determines the pay of the authors.
ReplyDeleteI have the utmost respect for the major publishers like Snow Lion, Wisdom, and Shambhala Publications but the paid e-book versions of their books are only a dollar or so cheaper than the printed copies-despite the lack of any printing costs-and I doubt it translates into higher pay for the authors.
The simple fact is that they are defending an outdated business model (less aggressively so than the MPAA and RIAA are) and need to innovate faster. It is why so many authors are now self-publishing.
+1 for this place!
ReplyDeleteLike you already said, this is a complex matter. I read the letter from Shambhala Publications and I must say I was pleasantly surprised by their kindness. Usually you get something along the lines of: "Stop, or we will sue your ass and put you in jail."
ReplyDeleteI can understand publishers like Shambhala, and I understand people who are left with very little money at the end of the month that they can spend on books & things they like. If I were you, I'd think this matter over and decide based on what is the Right thing to do.
Dear Buddhist Torrents, Shambala.
ReplyDeleteI understand the books are being given fore free here, but the fact is there was no way i could have come to know of the many of shambala if it wasn't for this site. Sure i could come to shambalas site and browse, but i have never bought a book like that! I have seen many books from this site and after having read a few chapters and if i like i surely buy the BOOK! i mean the next time i go for a retreat , i want to carry the best book for me, not an ebook! i am sure if it wasnt for BT i would'nt have bought many of the books I bought recently.
P.S: also in India i dont think any one can afford your books! the only time we buy them is when are really convinced it good! and how can we know that when even the book stores here dont stock your stuff. I mean i am talking India for gods sake... the dharma books by snow lion etc are ridiculously costly here. like 3-4 times the US price! I practically feed myself for a week with a price of a book.
with warm compassion ,
Sachin, India
I am living in rural Thailand and sustain from a moderate salary. Having no access to material via buddhosttorrent means have no material at all. Sharing can't be wrong.
ReplyDeleteAsking for Dana is ok, but asking for profit is not!
Yours in the Dhamma,
Peter
If possible then please don't close the site, I try my best to get a book from Local Library rather than try to get it thru internet but the Choices are sooooooo limited or should I say there are hardly any choices, but at the same time don't want you to get into any trouble whatsoever, so after reading thru all the comments make the final decision depending on your situation.
ReplyDeleteYou did a great service to all us fellow dhamma travelers and I will be forver grateful for that, with metta, a Dhamma Seeker.
why they don;t do the same with the megasharing sites?it's just intimidation
ReplyDeleteKeep it going!!
ReplyDeleteThose that have the money to buy - will buy regardless.
Those that dont have the means - need sites like these.
And all this site provides is links to were you can get the torrents - so does anyone really think closing the blog is going to stop anyone downloading these.
I dont think so.
I think they have every right to do this. However, I also think they have avoided their responsibility to make products which cannot be copied. If I went into Borders and tried to steal a book a small device within the book would set off an alarm. Why is there no digital equivalent of such a device? So before they blame us for their problems they should take action to find technological solutions to what are basically technological problems. That's the only solution that will work.
ReplyDeleteThis place should stay active.
ReplyDeleteIt's just an information you can get here. Let the people decide what they wanna do with that - preview, steal, review, check before buying - it's their decision and their karma.
To publishers, editors, authors - for many reasons I couldn't buy your stuff anyway, so you've lost nothing.
Thanks for the blog.
long live this blog!
ReplyDeleteAll I can think about is....
ReplyDelete"Don't let it end
I'm begging you, don't let it end this way
Don't let it end
I'm begging you, don't let it end this way" STYX
hmmm.
ReplyDeletei buy a book. i give it it to someone else. and so on. and so on.
the publisher earns from the first. but not from the second and so on. and so on.
the digital age makes the 'and so on' much more 'and so on.'
but that's the truth of the matter.
the whole world of digital protection is a sham; once the book is purchased, the right to the material has passed on. no matter what the publisher may say. (and the bought & paid-for government may enact).
the buddha lived in the pre-digital age and any precepts must be carefully adapted to the current age, and not blindly adhered to as some fundamental word of god.
it is the work of the publisher to manage the initial purchase of the material. if the publisher wishes to induce more initial purchases of their material, then they must also adapt to the current age, and figure out how to make the initial purchases more inviting than the digital copies.
the decision is, of course, yours. and their request was, indeed, respectable. but they are exerting their efforts in the wrong direction. get into that conference room and figure it out on your own! buddha didn't have a laptop and a marketing staff. you do.
Get a hosting on a different country.
ReplyDeleteThat may solve the problem or delay it.
Thank you for sharing.
Buddhism is not about money, Its about liberation from suffering. SO now that we have the possibility of sharing. You want us to stop?
ReplyDeleteBuddha Torrents makes the internet valuable: as a source of knowledge that leads to practice and compassion.
ReplyDeletePlease do not stop.
However, I guarantee that if this sites does stop, another will take its place. Karma
Dharma should be free to all people at all times. People outside the rich white world simply have no access to these teachings except through torrents. The gatekeepers have a point about making their living in a capitalist environment, but they should also examine their hearts for selfishness and greed.
ReplyDeleteI'm from Greece, first comment here, but I've known this blog for over a year and found many wonderful stuff because of it.
ReplyDeleteI was missing it when it ceased for a while, but happy to see it up again.
It would be great if it's possible to stay, but I've never run a blog and I understand that with all this pressure it's not to be taken for granted.
Best of luck and thanks for all the effort so far!
I´m from Argentina. This kind of books and not even in English.
ReplyDeleteApart from that, one Kabat Zinn book, here is almost 100 Us Dollar.
We, argentinians, have an exchange of 4/1...I mean, 1 dollar it equal to 4 argentinians pesos...
can you imagine how bad is our situation? we cant afford books...
One book it´s equal to more than one week of work =(
Actually, i´m a student of psychology. I really can´t afford this books, and this kind of information could not easily be found (and if you find it, probably, will cost very expensive)
What would our Lord Budha say in this kind of situation?
Let put in his pleace and act according to compassion.
Most budhas torrent users, cant afford this books... My opinion is that budha torrent must go on posting as it being doing...
By the way, thanks budha torrent for share, share is always good
I hope this blog continues, but... if i were in your situation, I would close it.
ReplyDeleteParadoxical? Totally.
Just like the fact that I like to eat meat, but if I had to kill the animals myself, I would be a vegetarian. Not sure if that makes me a hypocrit or just plain lazy.
from Thailand,
ReplyDeleteBuddha and master in the pass never sold his work.....and he teach to everyone who want to know Buddhadharma.
Buddhadharma is not a personal property, Buddha gave it to old master and they sent it again and again to present time, now why anyone want to sell Buddhadharma?
I am live in the country that I can not find these book in library and it is very expensive tax if I want to buy it from store.
Yes, if I have enough money, I will go to buy it. I think everyone feel like this, it is hard to read ebook on the monitor but now I can do only this.
but...it is your consideration.
I respect all of your decision.
(please forgive me for my poor English.)
this is an excellent blog, Please let them stay, thanks a lot
ReplyDeleteMark wrote: "Clearly Shambala has a different goal, and I think we all know what that is."
ReplyDeleteYes, they are trying to remain a viable business, so they can continue to publish good books, which we all enjoy. That's not a crime. If the freebie dharma books provided at your local temple are so great, why not just read those and stop downloading pirated copies of commercial publications? You know why, because the content and authors of the commercial publishers are far better (for the most part).
Just really few Buddhist material are available in my country and this blog was so helpful. My monthly salary is ~500 USD and I ordered many from the books that I have seen here. I think publishers must look for other ways to donation, the closing of this blog will not lead to results. The people who reads these books are not criminals and most of us committed in buddhist practice.
ReplyDeleteIn my opinion, you should honor Shambhala's request by not posting links to books edited by them.
ReplyDeleteSeveral good reasons are presented here why you should continue posting links. Also, I don't completely agree with Shambhala's viewpoint on loss of revenue.
But in the end, Shambhala is right that you are contributing in giving what has not been given, what can be considered as stealing or to promote stealing. Since they have wholeheartedly tried to make you aware of this, you should stop it.
Kind regards,
Ano
Many thanks to the people(1+1?) running Buddha torrents! I have gained free access to many precious texts!
ReplyDeleteHowever, I also have serious misgivings!
Practicing ethics the way I have been taught involves: "Not taking, what isnt given!". If publishers and authors have not specifically published free through the internet, it would seem to be a transgression taking such a not-given book?
It would Probably accumulate some negative karma?
Yours in the Dharma./M
Kindly please don't close this blog it would be a great loss for me and all dharma friends the place where I am living dont often get buddhist books and I usually do my best to buy the books but sometimes the books are very expensive if I need learn more about buddha dharma and do reference I need to go to library so it is very essential and important for all the dharma friends please dont close this blog I request publishers to kindly help the poor dharma friends I understand publishers take a lot of effort behind to publish book but they have to keep in mind no right effort and good cause goes waste, regards, Bharath
ReplyDeleteShambala would have us perpetuate the wasteful paper publishing industry for the sake of their profits. These profits go to Tibetan institutions and agenda that are far more political than spiritual.
ReplyDeleteI have always lived in remote places, and my vote goes to the readers in those situations, not to mention those who cannot afford the strength of their literary enthusiasms. These days I buy the books I am really sure I want from Amazon, and I free download those of more uncertain value to me, which invariably leads to more paper
purchases.
I am about to write a book for specialized interests, and I am unable to think of even one good reason it should ever see paper, as profits are of no interest to me. I have concluded that the paper publishing industry is really about SALES and PROMOTION, and they do not give a fig about writing or the common interests of humanity. They care far more about salesmen than authors.
Plz leave Buddha Torrent alive!!! Plz plz!!!
ReplyDeleteCopy and MOVE if you must but do not delete!
ReplyDeleteI have purchased Shambala products thanks to this 'blog'.
Nohing of this site is in mine library if it would ofcourse I preafer real book then staring at this electronic device. Thanks to this site I've benefited. Thank you. Many books or Dvd's contained here normaly I would't buy, so there is also no harm in income from sharing it with me.
ReplyDeleteI mostly download the more academic books posted here. They are usually written by professors and academics and they usually have a monthly income from their institutions. And they might even get extra bonuses for publishing. Furthermore, these books are usually so expencive that its impossible to buy. I could go to the library but since i like to scrible when i read i would have had to copy the books. That would be a lot of work. And to repeat what others have said: i would not buy the books im downloading if they were not available. I would probably not have come across them.
ReplyDeletebtw: i could recommand pages like: scribd, avaxhome, ebook30, holybooks
The dharma belongs to everyone. And the great irony here is that Shambala publishes some of the most expensive books on spirituality out there -- of which their authors actually get a pittance. Others above have expressed my further thoughts about this matter in fine detail -- especially as regards this being the only access many of us would have to this material otherwise. Please don't close the site, or move if you're forced to.
ReplyDeleteThank you for your generosity and work.
File Sharing is a fact of life in today's society. Right and wrong is in a large part determined by cultural norms. This is true in particular with shady areas where it is not clear that the harm is greater than the benefit. Pew Research surveyed the US and found that 29% of Americans file share.
ReplyDeleteA high percentage of file sharers were low income and concern about copy rights increased with income. Anyone who has tried to live on less than $30,000 knows that there is very little room for purchasing media.
Many public decisions made today are often made on the basis of the utilitarian principle of the greatest good for the greatest number. Yes, publishers and authors are harmed by file sharing. But the harm is incredibly small compared to the gain of society.
Those who file share share a lot. While I don't know of a scientific estimate for society at large, I know for myself I would probably purchase less than one out of every hundred things I download. So there is a small decrease in revenue for music. However, the quality of my life and the quality of the lives of those around me have been greatly enriched.
If you decide to close this blog you should be very clear with yourself about why you close it. Closing the blog will increase publisher revenues slightly. It may have a marginal effect on the income of the artists. However, most individuals using this site would continue to download. The publishers are deluded if the think that the growth of file sharing can be halted.
File sharing is a generational phenomenon. As our population ages file sharing will become a universally accepted behavior. The only point I can see for you to close this site is for an egalitarian devotion to the letter of the law. Even that is a bit of a stretch considering that there is nothing technically illegal about this site.
The Buddha never charged anyone for his teachings, and i'm sure the book sellers would also love giving their books away for free to the people who can't afford them, such as me.
ReplyDeleteThe Buddha said all things are impermanent. He did not make any exemptions for content publishing models.
ReplyDeleteHi from Italy!:-)
ReplyDeleteThank to Buddha Torrents I have the chance to get in touch and preview books that I would not meet otherwise.
After that, if I like a book generally I buy it.
So, my impression is that blogs like this are not a damage but a "showcase" for buddhist books publishers...
please continue to share the dharma, i think these western buddhist publication companies should make dharma books available to those less fortunate free of charge. this may seem strange to some but i waited 6 months to receive dharma books from taiwan. i got them free of charge and they definitately weren't available in any store here.in any case your disclaimer states that you do not host any of these torrents, you just makes the links and descriptions available ,please continue, your efforts are greatly appreciated.
ReplyDeletethanks from trinidad and tobago!!
In the adverse times we live making accessible books that can raise awareness is an act of merit and it shouldn't be stopped. We cannot put a price tag on everything. I feel disappointed with Shambhala Publications. Please, continue Buddha Torrents.
ReplyDeleteshambala has been a great publisher over the years and i've bought so many of their books -- thank you for making them available to us.
ReplyDeletemany of the books i might download from buddha torrents are copies of the books i've already bought so that the originals are then donated to local libraries.
shambala isn't losing any new sales as a result but does reap the merit and good karma from these donations to the community.
i look at BT as a second hand bookstore for the soul.
thanks - please keep BT running
I never posted a comment here but I wanted to say this:
ReplyDeleteMost books that I read fully or about half way I end up buying because i love it and want to have a hard copy. Please leave this open, to some, its the only way they can get this type of material. Appreciate it
i also want to add that if you close your site down, numerous other ones will appear and someone will keep it going through torrents/usenets/irc so please keep this site open!
ReplyDeleteit's amazing how intelligent and respectful this whole discusison has been. It's quite rare on the internet to see that.
ReplyDeleteThs site is really one of a kind. If you do decide to move it, please let us know where so we can follow you.
And if I may play devil's advocate: A lot of people refer to the precept "do not take what is not given". Can someone explain what I am taking when I make a digital copy? I am not depriving anything from anyone. (plenty of testimony above showing that a download does NOT equal a lost sale) I am not saying there are no karmic consequences to downloading. There are karmic consequences to all actions. But I don't believe that precept applies to filesharing. Do not confuse copyright and precepts.
I also wonder if Shambhala Pubs is monitoring this thread. It would be great if they would respond to some of the comments made. For some reason though, I doubt they will, and I find that unfortunate.
I am from Australia. 98% of 'illegal donwloads' I have collected from this site and others are e-copies of books that I already own because I bought them. If I buy books at Shambala and asked them to give me a complimentary ecopy, it's easy to anticipate the reply.
ReplyDeleteAs Patrul Rinpoche says “The Dharma is nobody’s property. It belongs to whoever is most interested.” ( Words of My Perfect Teacher)
So from the Dharma side of things no one can claim anything. In fact I would see sites like this especially when used by Argentinian, Mexican, Hungarian, Greek and other friends in remote places or in poor circumstances as part of the ongoing transmission that we are all responsible for.
It is a fact that translators have to live. Those of us who have work and can make sacrifices to our own comfort can buy the books from the publishers, can sponsor the 84,000 project and the Khyentse Foundation.
The highest generosity is giving the dharma. Thank you for the courage of maintaining this site. Resisting the moralistic blackmail from left wing liberals is part of that...
Long live Buddhatorrents !! please carry the dhaamaa path of sharing the precious buddhist reading materials .
ReplyDeleteThe will and freedom of many sharing knowledge, traditions, history and culture should not be taken away from the people who actually shares what has been done and meant to be for the people. Let's call it "spiritual whealth".
ReplyDeleteFirst of all, it seems to exist only one complaint coming from Shambala... therefore, avoid the posts related only to Shambala.
ReplyDeleteSecond, we people who live at the periphery of the world (i.e. I live in Argentina), the chance to get and read these books or watch these movies is highly valuable.
This same old argument didn't work with the music download and now is being applied to books, without real foundation, trying to make us feel guilty for the bankrupcy and poverty of the authors and editorials. Knowledge must be asequible to all besides Amazon's customers.
As one who reads and writes, uploads and downloads torrents, I could probably argue either side of this issue.
ReplyDeleteAs one who just recently found that this blog is operating again, I know how much I would miss it if it closed.
I do believe that you should drop the Shambhala books, since there has been a specific request to do so.
I know Blogger has closed other blogs like yours which provided links to download material. So, it might be better for you to find another venue.
Anyway, thanks for your efforts so far.
Despite what is being said, not many can continue to spend hundreds of dollars on this sort of material. For those us who can not, this is a helpful website.
ReplyDelete2500 years ago, Buddha appeared in this world to give teachings with one and one purpose only: to teach us the way to liberate ourselves. Buddha has never asked for anything in return. Therefore it is our responsibility to keep the teachings available freely to others.
ReplyDeleteIf you are a writer to write about Buddhism and want to make money, we suggest you switch career. Dharma can't be for sale.
I do have issues with downloading books on the whole, but with downloading Buddhist books, I do feel that the ethical issue is somewhat greyer, specifically, because of the philosophy that Buddhism espouses.
ReplyDeleteIf someone truly believes in the Mahayana ideal, then if they are an author of a book, they should want that book to reach as many people as possible so that as many people as possible can become enlightened.
Charging money for the book will put people off buying the book and so some person, who the book could be ideal for, would not read the book and so not become enlightened.
The person who contacted buddhatorrents said that one author used the profits to maintain her monastic practice. Very laudable but this is quite egotistical as maintaining her probably small monastic practice should not take first place over spreading the Dharma to as many people as humanly possible.
Her book might be amazing, and would bring many people to Buddhism. But if people see it on amazon for, let's say, £10, along with the thousands and thousands of other Buddhist books out there, fewer people are going to read her brilliant book. And many potential Buddhists will be lost.
I'm afraid Buddhists can't have their cake and eat it too. Either they want to be universally compassionate and spread the Dharma to all living beings or they want to make a living off Buddhism.
I do look at people like Stephen Batchelor and Noah Levine and wonder if these sorts of people, whilst writing excellent books that do indeed promote Buddhism very well, are actually living an authentic Buddhist lifestyle.
I watched the Noah Levine documentary and saw him driving around on his new Harley Davidson. Buddhism sells then!
And whilst reading Stephen Batchelor's autobiography, I couldn't quite work out how he managed to pay his bills or put food on his table. He didn't really seem to have any "job".
He earns his living writing very good Buddhist books. But should he "earn" his living in this way? I do feel that making money from promoting a philosophy that is so anti-materialistic is somewhat ironic.
These people seem to be "professional Buddhists", almost as though writing about Buddhism is a career choice.
I've researched Buddhism heavily over the last year and whilst I admire the philosphy greatly, I don't like the often hypocritical materialism that I see on occassion. And this topic is a perfect example of this.
Bottom line. All Buddhist authors should publish their works for free. If they don't, and make out some story that they can't survive without royalties, then they are hypocrites. There is nothing to stop them getting a job in a factory and writing in their spare times. (As I have, someone who indeed works 8 hours a day in a factory but has still managed to have two books published!)
Apologies is this all seems somewhat cynical. I admire Buddhism greatly through my research and my research has been aided by buddhatorrents.
If Buddhists truly want to get the Dharma out there, then they will support things like buddhatorrents or some initiative like a big, free, Buddhist online printing press cum website where top Buddhist authors publish their works to as wide an audience as possible.
This is what Buddhism should be all about.
Please Don't Delete!! I love this site!!
ReplyDeleteI love this blog. Don't delete it, please!
ReplyDeleteI also live in Mexico, a country in great turmoil. I sometimes buy Dharma books here and through Amazon, but they are extremely costly and I am not wealthy. I have downloaded books from Buddha Torrents, and once in a while check in to see the new uploads. I don't print and sell these books, sometimes -when I think a specific title may do some good to someone- I send them via e-mail. I don't see a crime in this. It's like back in the 70's, when you tape-recorded a record and gave it to your girlfriend. (I don't consider that a crime either). I am, by the way, in the publishing business. Please, keep on...
ReplyDeleteGassho!
really sad to hear that, but it'll be great if keep posting and staying alive blog
ReplyDeletePlease keep the site going! Your work is helping a lot of people.
ReplyDeleteThis is an interesting discussion. The bottom line for me is that authors and publishers have a point (I spoke about this with one of my author friends and he thought it was a shame so many people have rationalizations to basically steal, though my view is a bit more flexible, see below). To his point, they put all this work into these, need to make a living, etc. and we come along and grab them because we can. It is fundamentally not different that taking a book from a store without paying for it.
ReplyDeleteAs far as the availability issue, most of these books are ebooks now which can be bought from anywhere. The only grey area is for people who truly cannot afford them (though apparently have computers, etc. etc.). I feel for them and not sure what to say, but wonder how really valid this is.
If people want Buddhist books to be free, please write one and make it available. Also there are many communities that sponsor publications and there is some great free (and downloadable) material out there.
Rather than take the site down, I think it is great to post books or discussions and talk about them. Then people can learn more. My 2 cents.
This site is amazing, please keep going.
ReplyDeleteMy friend,
ReplyDeleteThe most important thing is the INTENTION. I heard this words from a great tibetan teacher, so do what you think is good for others. Don't think too much about right and wrong, just do it.
how can sharing be wrong?
ReplyDeletewe are not even supposed to profit financially from sacred teachings in the first place
we are moving to a more open hearted and generous world beyond money, based on sharing; it is happening now. i understand shambalas point of view, they are accting to protect their interest. it is for them to leave how to adapt to a changing market place rather than being reactionary and trying to grasp onto something they have already lost. times are changing fast, change is accelerating. your work supports and uplifts many and i feel sure that many readers/listeners do go on to buy original material.
ReplyDeletein the spirit of abundance i praise you, offer gratitude for all the teachings and invoke the vision of prosperity of all kinds to flow freely to us all
Namaste
It's a very useful blog. Don't delete it, please!
ReplyDeleteShambala Publications! Indeed! Whats their motive for intruding into this blog? MONEY! To stay in business! They have outlived their usefulness years ago. This blog is a REAL service for free, a concept that has been totally lost at Shambala.
ReplyDeleteGo away and leave this blog alone, and hopefully, in the near future, your whole money making "Buddhist" yuppie publication will turn into dust.
stay.
ReplyDeletewith or without you the trend is the same.
as an alternative ask them to post some advertising space on your blog for those who afford to buy them and want to support this way.
however I would remind that editing house that all great spiritual masters offered those teachings for FREE and with full detachment regarding material values like money.
the world is changing so they have adapt also to spread these valuable gems.
if there will be no more means to stay alive as a non or small profit business , well then it's the planet's bad karma ...
let the people gain more merit and start again :D
a garland of life giving wisdom, and though things of this world are impermanent...wisdom is not
ReplyDeleteplease continue to bring together these rare flowers...your garland of wisdom means a lot to me
love
mani
india
well all good things come to an end I guess too bad that this awesome blog got on the hot list I want to thnk you for all the great stuff
ReplyDeleteone thing the so called"publishers" do not get is no on here will buy there stuff anyway
Maybe time to move the whole rig to a new address!!! some music bloggers keep moving their blogs around to avoid the NetGb LOL
thnks again
I feel I have been much benefited from the material posted here. I believe that if someone intents and has the money to buy a book, will do it anyway. Usually when I find a book that I like here or anywhere else and can afford I would buy it, even if i have the ebook. I feel that most people who don't buy, wouldn't afford it anyway, so why not let them benefit from the knowledge too? Blessings.
ReplyDeleteshambala's motive is unclear to me, shouldn't the dharma be freely offered to anyone?!?!
ReplyDeleteisn't that (!) actually a precept just as not taking what is freely given??
(maybe i am confused i don't know),
what i do suggest is that you can open a dharma donation box (paypal) and if people here do appreciate the books they can give dana and you can donate it as you wish,
i am not saying this is the solution, only a possibility.
another thing is, if you have a teacher that you trust you can ask for his advice, and talk to shambala also to try and understand each other better.
Please don't shut Buddha Torrents down!!!
ReplyDeleteWeird, they want to shut you down when you're only pointing to the torrents and you're not hosting anything. You're simply serving as a liaison.
For publishers it may seem like a loss but they are not capable of truly measuring the effects to others, their statements are empty and are only based on their perceptions.
Besides, I believe that when a person is touched/inspired/moved by the Dharma and somehow gains some insight and realization because of it, he or she will do more good deeds even without the law. Say for example, if I get to download a book/dharma talk and this has inspired me or touched me in any way, I may have the urge to donate. The ripple effect is immeasurable.
I don't think I've articulated my point well. haha
Anyway, I agree with Emperor Coconut, it may be a generation thing.
So please don't shut the site down! :)
Hi. Please continue this blog and don't bother about complains. Everything is changing and it is not our fault that we want free access to books on internet - its normal after all and there is no way to avoid this. Internet resources should be available free for everyone without any obstacles with full support for sharing anything that man can invent. Thats the ultimate objective of internet.
ReplyDeleteWhat is not normal is publishers complains on reality who starts counting invisible lost money on their account blaming us for lower income and such and such situations. They are looking on this subject from old marketing point of view with has nothing to do with us - free as space, without blame, pure and innocent curious readers :)
May all beings be happy - with what their got. Everything is empty, everything is free like space without any marks of possessiveness. Even more in this Reality there is no such thing as copyrights. Not mention that Dharma is ultimately free from such stains.
Stay cool and relaxed.
Gonna have to respectfully disagree with most of the posters here. We live in the real world, where publishers, especially small publishers, like Shambhala require actual capital to survive. It's nice to talk about the Dharma and how it should be shared freely with all, alas, be realistic, Shambhala has real financial concerns it has to deal with in order to remain in business and to continue providing access to the Dharma. Part of being a grown-up is being grounded, and recognizing things as they are. Sure, you can try to change them, but going against the grain like you're doing is only hurting small publishers, and ultimately making the Dharma less available.
ReplyDeleteSeriously consider doing what they ask of you.
Please don´t destroy this place. It´s not so easy to find such an unique place to find something about buddhism.
ReplyDeletethx
I believe the publishers are hardly losing any money because of file sharing.
ReplyDeleteI have bought many books and audio recordings, but I simply cannot afford to buy everything, since I am on a limited income. If I couldn't get free access, I wouldn't get access at all. If I can afford it, I will buy it, but if I can't, I won't.
I probably wouldn't have heard of many spiritual teachers that I bought books of later on, if it wasn't for sites like this one.
Dear people at Shambala (and similar places): try seeing sites like these as a form of promoting your products. It's not free, just like purchasing an ad in the paper, but in the end you profit from it.
Stay with us please!!!!
ReplyDeleteDon't let them get to you. Keep on providing teaching for those who may not have access to ANY of the facilities mention in the letter. What you are doing is reaching a far greater number than the donations that Shambhala is making. Further, they may be small but the are not exactly hurting they are neting between 5 and 10 million a year. This is only the publishing company as we all know Shambhala is a good sized outfit. Needless to say, they are doing a lot of great work and so are you. At the end of the day, I don't recall reading price list in any of the sutras. The Buddha taught for free. You are helping to feed the spirit of the Maha Sangha and helping those who would not otherwise have any access to the text mentioned on the site.
ReplyDeletePlease keep up the good works!
Many Thanks!!!!!
It is really imposible to me to buy these books. I live in Ecuador, here the books are expensive, and these good materials are really rare. And the books are not in Spanish, if you want one of these books, you must import. Not a good situation, please continue these blog... :)
ReplyDeleteShambhala Publications, please dont worry. Even if i use this blog, i always buy the best books in paper form. ;-)
ReplyDeletewhy is it that a library could loan out the same books (paid for only once) countless times unrestricted while the generosity of some in sharing the files (from first paid copy) and those accpeting the generosity be considered 'ethically wrong' or worse 'a crime'?
ReplyDeleteif Shambala (and others like it) is really doing Buddha's works in Buddha's spirit, then do what is right by the Buddha with wisdom and compassion - share what they have with those who don't have the cold hard cash to pay for it as spiritual food.
if shambala and others like is are purely business concerns, then .....
thank you buddha torrents for providing a badly needed service in Buddha's spirit.
Hi
ReplyDeleteI've visited your site near everyday since finding in on the web It would be are great shame to lose your blog.... Please don't go the people that are tying to close you down are the same people that don't practices what they preach with wrong intention behind their cause.
Why "us" against "them"?
ReplyDeleteWhat if we work together?
Maybe we can support, volunteer and donate Dharma publishers.
How much do they need to make this teachings available to everyone?
I've now backed up this site and every post on it and am ready to shift it to an off-shore server in the event either the owner shuts it down or is forced to shut it down.
ReplyDeleteThis resource will live on regardless of what the owner or anyone else does.
Sounds good, I'm looking at VPS providers in Holland ATM, if in a week you decide to drop it I'll be redeploying.
ReplyDelete@ Anonymous July 6, 2011 12:07 & Leaf Dharma -
ReplyDeleteGreat Idea! If its redeployed elsewhere will someone keep adding?
This blog has been a source of knowledge and information for me and, I am sure, many other people from all over the world. There are several blogs on the Internet which features mindless violence etc which have been running for years, yet nothing has been done about them, but there have been efforts to close this blog which educates us about Buddhism?? How ridiculous is that! Please let this blog continue.
ReplyDeleteI'll keep adding content and maybe open it up to some contributors to keep it updated.
ReplyDeleteHi, I am from Peru and I'm sure, It's Impossible to find these kind of books over here, and it's Super Expensive to buy then online!!
ReplyDeleteInfomation must be for everyone, anywhere in the globe, so well I think even if you close this web,
This page is not the first or going to be the last that publishes this books, just as simple as saying "just live with it", internet is for everyone!
Thanks!!!
Those of us who are a little more worldly still gotta eat bro. Life of a monk isn't for everyone.
ReplyDeletePlease stay with us. =) _/|\_
ReplyDeleteIt's probably the nicest Cease & Desist letter in history, so thanks to Shambhala Publications for being so gentle.
ReplyDeleteI believe that what this site does is as important as the authors who interpret the Buddha's words, and indeed the publishers who publish them, especially Shambhala. However, there is a clear case here for people needing to get through difficulty, and sometimes desperation, by having access to these important works. Personally, I have been to libraries many, many times and borrowed audiobooks by these same publishers and authors, as well as books. At no time was my being lent such material an issue.
Many who come to this excellent blog do not have the luxury of a local, well-stocked, open-minded library, and so the existence of this medium in sharing what other members have previously purchased and then posted, should not be an issue.
This is especially the case when one considers the type of material being presented by the authors and publishers.
In fact, there have been at least a dozen times that I have discovered material here, and then gone on to purchase a copy.
I think that it would be a crime to stop this blog, and delete all of the excellent material donated, and further, it would be a crime for Shambhala or their authors to pursue this further.
Surely, it would make more sense for publishers to assist in legitimizing the site in some way, as opposed to bringing lawyers in to the equation? Those same lawyers often having little understanding for anything other than commercial interests.
What is it about the Western business model that, however nice about it, goes after easiest targets for their loss of market share? Why is it that the Japanese model exists by turning a blind-eye to copyright and still turns a healthy profit?
There exists a great need for the material on this site to be disseminated to those who need it most, without charge. This type of awareness is actually a necessary mechanism for publishers to survive.
I hope the blog resists all attempts to close out the service.
The above post somehow implies that copyright law is equivalent to universal law. This is not so.
ReplyDeleteAnd if he takes it offline, it won't matter, it will be mirrored, the content will never disappear.
No, please don't do it because it is a Great Source for Buddhism and Spirituality so please keep it alive...
ReplyDeleteI will try to tell others about so you get more visitors and can go further with this great piece which is your BLOG!
Please don't.
ReplyDeleteNot all books are available especially on the Philippines.
And they are not affordable either.
I think it is apparent that those who are interested in this kind of material will, obviously, pay for it if they are able. Shutting down Buddha Torrents will only really affect those who cannot afford to purchase these materials, such as those on disability, etc.
ReplyDeletePlease keep this blog going, but if you decide not to continue then at least leave up the info for as long as possible.
Underlying this discussion are two grave misconceptions that are best to be overhauled. These entrenched misconceptions or beliefs are 1) that one's financial income/abundance is solely dictated by external affairs (i.e.: the market or, in this case, copying/sharing of materials). Mystics and/or Self-Realized beings know that the true source of their abundance, health, -- hec, LIFE -- is their Divine Self. If the Source is the source of everything, then surely one need not worry but simply tune within for new creative ideas to make financial flow.
ReplyDeleteThe second belief is that there is not enough to go around. In this case, not enough of money. Again, only the ego feels limited and imprisoned; only ego feels insecure in the belief that there is not enough. There is more than enough of creative ways to make income or sustain an adequate lifestyle.
I suggest that publishers of spiritual books that constantly state such things as "you are the source of your abundance; your thoughts create your reality, etc." take these comments seriously and put them into action, for they too are the audience of the writer; not just the medium through which the books are published.
Finally, a lot of these books here I wouldn't buy anyways. What has happened before is enjoying a downloaded book and engaging more with the author in question by visiting their website, buying their meditation cd's or books, going to a conference in which they appear, etc....
I understand publishers difficulty. But come on, free downloading has become an unstoppable avalanche. One is best to find new creative ways to make financial money.
All the best though.
May the best outcome occur for all involved.
There is no such thing as "I".
ReplyDeleteThere is no such thing as "mine".
There is no such thing as "copyright".
Peace!